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Offline EVOGT

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 10:13:01 PM »
Triumph in the UK are run as two separate companies. You have Triumph UK and official Triumph, one is the factory and the other is the pretty much the UK importer

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2018, 11:37:43 PM »
*Originally Posted by Harrycaine [+]
The increase in top line turnover sounds good but a profitability  of less than 5% is hardly wonderful even if it's 1% ish better than 2016. Good to see them export a large percentage even if much manufacturing takes place in Thailand. Triumph as definitely a minnow in the world of motorcycle sales about half of BMW and according to several sources in the great google Honda sold 17 Million and Royal Enfield even more. So there is plenty of market to tap in to.

I wish them every success in the future.

In my opinion however I wonder how much room there is in the retro market where they seem to have put much of their efforts recently ? Triumph can play there as the brand has great value for those that are vulnerable for such nonsense. For me they fight on equal terms and I love the Street Triple for the bike it is not for the maker.

HC

" how much room there is in the retro market ....   .... for those that are vulnerable for such nonsense."

I'd guess we might ask Harley Davidson or Indian how much room there is in the retro market. 

Or, as you mentioned, Royal Enfield  - they don't come much more retro than a design that, fundamentally, dates from the 1950's but which seems to be working still for RE.  Granted they enjoy the great good fortune of having, arguably, the largest home market in the world where cheap, basic transport is an essential, rather than a discretionary, purchase. 

Or maybe even ask the mighty Honda - they're re-introducing, of all things, the once nearly ubiquitous C50/90 step through Cub!  And it's not the only 'retro' in Honda's line-up - there's more good news if you're a Monkey bike lover!

I'd posit that there probably is a good deal of room in the "retro" market - depending on your view of what retro really means, and where your target market(s) is (are).   Seems to me that Triumph are extremely keen to broaden those target markets and I think their efforts to do that can be seen in full factory involvement in ventures like the World Speed record attempts as well as the Moto2 developments.   Yep, for sure they remain heavily invested in the twins range, which is pretty much all retro, but, if that's a viable revenue and income stream and it ain't broke, why fix it?

Not sure about the "nonsense" epithet.  Most of us are, after all, riding motorcycles very heavily based on what might be termed a "retro" theme - naked street roadster with functionality to suit a wide target customer base.   

Adie

Offline hotmetal

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2018, 11:13:32 AM »
The name 'Street Triple' is loosely based on the original 'Speed Twin' (via the Speed Triple obviously). I can't help but think the name 'Speedmaster' is a bit anachronistic and awkward on it's incumbent though, in the face of more modern bikes like the last Daytona. Triumph leans heavily on their heritage (why wouldn't you?) but ever since the Daytona 675 came out, they've been awesome bikes in their own right, that would've done just as well under an unknown brand than being a lifestyle choice based on brand values rather than performance  (unlike the American v twins)

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2018, 02:36:50 PM »
Arguably the adventure series is as well regarded with he who shall not be named.
2>4

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2018, 08:08:51 AM »
*Originally Posted by adiepage [+]
Hmmmm....interesting.   I thought that ExternPro just built all the engines so that all teams got consistent performance.  (No offence to ExternPro - I know its not anything like THAT simple.)   All the race - developed parts come from the factory, don't they?

This is what it says on Honda's website about current CBR600RR engines in Moto2 :-

ExternPro took over Moto2 engine preparation from Geo Technology at the end of the 2012 season ...

Moto2 engines are lightly tuned versions of Hondas standard CBR600RR streetbike engine, using HRC race kit parts that include a ported cylinder head, camshafts, valve springs, ECU, AC generator and a taller first gear. Pistons, crankshaft, connecting rods, gearbox and so on are standard CBR items.


So, the factory would appear to do all the race kit development (HRC) and ExternPro put it all together, tune, test then certify and seal it?  Least that's how I've sort of assumed and understood it to now.

It may be just Triumph 'blowing smoke'  but this is what is on the 09/17 FTR (For The Ride - Triumph's 'magazine') site :-

This weeks Triumph shakedown at the 5.344km track just west of Barcelona is another major step on the development journey following months of bench, prototype and rolling road testing at the manufacturers Hinckley headquarters. And early indications suggest that when it comes to power, torque and durability, its exceeding expectations.

But, I'd guess my main point is that ANY race based development is going to incur substantial costs and Triumph's R&D expenditure seems, to me, commendably low considering the costs one might expect.

That's very interesting.  I did the factory tour 2 weeks ago and they showed us boxes of new camshafts which had been produced for the Moto2 engine with hardened bearing surfaces.  These were alongside a crated display engine.  They went on to tell us they have an R&D department behind big black screens and no one gets in there (I have seen this on 2 tours I have been on), they also have the engine test beds and they told us the engines would be built there and sealed before despatching to Dorna.

After that they are gone and the next time they see them is after they have failed when the factory will strip down and investigate.
Forward he cried, from the rear, and the front rank died!

Offline Harrycaine

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 08:15:42 PM »
*Originally Posted by hotmetal [+]
The name 'Street Triple' is loosely based on the original 'Speed Twin' (via the Speed Triple obviously). I can't help but think the name 'Speedmaster' is a bit anachronistic and awkward on it's incumbent though, in the face of more modern bikes like the last Daytona. Triumph leans heavily on their heritage (why wouldn't you?) but ever since the Daytona 675 came out, they've been awesome bikes in their own right, that would've done just as well under an unknown brand than being a lifestyle choice based on brand values rather than performance  (unlike the American v twins)

----
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I like this view....I hope we all purchase stuff...bikes included because of an objective view on performance/value..NOT because of any Brand/heritage BS

HC

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 10:49:22 AM »
*Originally Posted by Harrycaine [+]
I like this view....I hope we all purchase stuff...bikes included because of an objective view on performance/value..NOT because of any Brand/heritage BS

HC

I don't like this view.  No, actually, I REALLY don't like this view.

You bought your Street Triple because it's a nice colour?  Good for you!  You bought your 765 ST because you like the modern styling?  Well done, good choice!  You bought your RS because of the advanced electronic safety features?  Great idea!  You bought your Street Triple because it's got a badge on the tank; a factory providing thousands of jobs in the East Midlands and supporting thousands more nationally and internationally; an industry wide, global reputation for build specification and quality, and a name that dates back to the first days of motorcycle production?  WHAT? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FAR KING MIND?  Don't you realise that retro is "nonsense"; that "Brand/heritage" are BS and that you're demonstrating a clear lack of objectivity about the performance/value of your purchase?

People buy things for a whole host of reasons, HC, as is evidenced by the size and scope of the industry sectors surrounding manufacturing and production, such as marketing; advertising; consumer research, design etc., et al.,  so I suspect that your "hope (that) we all purchase stuff...bikes included because of an objective view on performance/value..NOT because of any Brand/heritage BS" (sic) is somewhat in vain.  At least I hope it is!  If it isn't, and we project your view to a logical - if unlikely - conclusion, we'll simply end up with a LOT of people out of work and a massive comparative table of the performance/value of anything and everything. 

As far as I'm concerned, there is ABSOLUTELY no less qualitative value in having and/or expressing subjective reasons for buying a motorcycle - or anything else for that matter.  It's called 'free will' as well as a free market.  One person's subjective choice is just as valid as your objective reasoning.  You want to buy a 636?  Go ahead - knock yourself out.  Enjoy.   Fancy an MT07?  OK, sure, sorry to see you sell the ST.  See  you out there.

I apologise if this sounds like a personal atttack - it's not meant to.  It's meant to be a reasoned argument to counter your seemingly (and, in my view, unnecessarily) and repeatedly pejorative representations of retro and brand/heritage and the presumed denigration of brand loyalty per se.  There is NOTHING intrinsically, morally or even objectively "wrong" with anyone making a choice on the grounds of brand loyalty, admiration or respect as long as the person making that choice is happy with his or her purchase and the underlying reasons for it.   If you're happy with your Street Triple for the performance/value it provides - fine.  I'm just happy you've got a Triumph.  If I'm happy with the badge on the tank, the company that made it and the history behind it - so what? 

So, please, PLEASE  :440: stop needlessly knocking 'retro'., 'brand' and 'heritage' followers, after all, it's arguable that if I - and many thousands more like me - hadn't stumped up the cash and bought Tridents, Trophys and Daytonas back in 1992 when these bikes were very much contemporary and NOT retro styled; when their 'performance' was never quite up to the standard of some of the competition and when it was pretty much impossible to get an objective view of performance/value of such a new product, then YOU wouldn't be riding a Street Triple today.

Regards,

Adie

Offline bucksfizz

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 12:28:31 PM »
I like the above comment.
Dare I say that we need Facebook-like "like" button on this forum?
We have one on Access Norton, and it seems popular.

Offline Harrycaine

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 05:57:14 PM »
Apologies.   :431:

The views expressed were my own, I should not of shared them.

HC

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Re: TRIUMPH's Outlook
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2018, 06:10:40 PM »
It's a forum - all opinions are valid.  Even the ones we don't like.

Keep all points of view coming as far as I'm concerned. The world would be a dull place if we all had the same point of view lol the time!

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